Back in my playground days, there was a lot of offensive humor going around. Garbage Pail Kids, anyone? (Although mine was kind of awesome. Seriously.) But one brand I remember in particular was the “Yo Mama” jokes. They all start with the phrase “yo mama” and then finish with something highly derogatory about the sacrificing woman who had birthed the listener. Some began “Yo mama so ugly…” or “Yo mama so stupid…” But most of them started with “Yo mama so fat…”
“… she sat on a rainbow and skittles came out!”
“… they had to take her year book picture with an aerial camera!”
“… she has her own zip code!” (Thanks Weird Al for being an 8th grader in perpetuity!)
“… she sat on a quarter and a booger popped out of George Washington’s nose!”
And those are just the ones that I can recall off the top of my head. Seriously, even after all these years they came back to me like that. No google. Just to test my theory out, I asked my husband if he remembered any off the top of his head. Without pausing, he spouted off at least five ending with this one:
“Yo mama so fat she can’t wear gray to the beach ’cause of the harpoonin’!”
And do you know what I did? Me? The girl who is so painfully aware of the hurt that a joke can cause that she has cried over many a fairly innocuous rib? I giggled. Sure, part of it had to do with the hilarious tone of voice my husband used (“harPOOnin'”!!) but most of it was just reflexive. I wasn’t thinking of my own mother or of myself as a mother or of any mother. And yet, it’s a terribly offensive joke.
What if I had made the joke about blacks? Or Jews? Certainly then there would be less laughing. For the past few decades while our society has grown progressively more accepting of different nationalities, skin colors, religions and even sexual orientations we have increased in our bigotry of “fat people.” I’ve even listened to people defend their discriminatory mindset by saying “Well people can’t control what color they are but they can sure choose not to supersize at the drive thru!” True. But people can also control when their mouths move and spewing hate at any group – even if it’s “just a joke”- isn’t okay.
I have a very good friend who is quite overweight who routinely makes these kinds of jokes about himself. He laughs. Others laugh. It’s kind of terrible to watch, especially because he is freaking hilarious. I asked him about it once and he said that he deserves the self-inflicted ridicule because he let himself go. That and he’d rather laugh with people than have them laughing at him. This has got to stop. We’ve got to start seeing people as more than what they look like on the outside – any part of it. We are so much more than our pant size!
But how to “sell” that to your average humor-loving person? Australia recently asked its citizenry this very question and the ad some of them came up with is quite powerful in my opinion. It’s highly offensive. Truly, unless you are some kind of social idiot you will cringe. Hard. But it makes the point in a very effective manner. Check it out (no profanities – at least no American ones – but still probably NSFW):
Has fat discrimination become the new hate speech? What did you think of this ad – does it sink to “their level” or is it effective? How do you put a stop to this in your own life? And – anyone else laugh at the Yo mama jokes? (Be honest!)
For a more in-depth analysis of the ad and the ensuing televised debate in Australia, check out Jezebel.com’s coverage.
My sister and I made up “My Mama’s so skinny…” jokes. Because she was (and still is thin). My fav was “My Mama’s so skinny she can’t ride on the escalator because she falls through the cracks” We thought we were hilarious!
After having a child born with a disability and then having my nephew diagnosed with Autism, I have become very aware how offhand comments people think are funny and innocent, can really be very hurtful. There are plenty of ways to be funny or make jokes without doing it at someone’s expense.
Fat jokes are a prime display of just how shallow our society has become, but I wouldn’t really call them hate speech. A “joke” that conjures up images of Holocaust suffering is really not the same as a joke that implies that fat people are too unattractive to get laid.
Great post. These kind of jokes are incredibly painful, and it makes no sense that we tolerate ridiculing people based on their weight, when we no longer tolerate other kinds of jokes that demean people.
But… it’s really hard to “police” humor. I think there’s a huge difference when people make fun of their own subcultures, versus someone else’s. And the more forbidden a source of humor is, the more outrageous, transgressive, and hilarious it is.
It’s a dilemma–I know I’ve seen stand up comics who had me in hysterics by saying all kinds of politically incorrect things. I think there’s something to the intent behind a joke. I don’t mind some pretty outrageous things said in the “we humans are funny” vein. A Black or gay or Korean or “redneck” comedian riffing on their own culture can be hilarious. Whereas jokes that are clearly just saying “fat people (or jews or fags or blacks or whatever) are stupid and disgusting and lame… these are completely intolerable.
Did anyone else’s parents ever tell them “Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me?”
The thing about letting jerks hurt your feelings is it gives them power over you. They can steal your peace. Can you change them with national ad campaigns? Maybe. But it’s a lot harder to control other people than it is to control yourself and whether or not you intend to let other people have power over your emotions with flippant comments.
oh my god that ad was horrific… whatever about fat jokes, there’s no need to hash up archaic racist jokes in order to get your point across! I was really shocked by the first “joke” of that ad, so much that I could barely concentrate on the rest of it.
I know you can’t police humour, and everyone has different levels of acceptability for offensive jokes, but that doesn’t mean they should be publicised like that!
I know I have a very dark sense of humour, and at times can even be found laughing at sexist/racist/ageist/fat-ist/etc. jokes, but I don’t choose to seek out this humour nor do I force my humour on other people.
Oh and I agree with Tyler, I wouldn’t classify fat jokes in the same category as hate speech… That ad really was off target.
I’m all over the map on this issue. I hate ‘politically correct’ speech, since it generally seems to involve someone else telling me what to say. But jokes are supposed to be funny, and hurting people is definitely not funny.
The meanest jokes tend to come from people who don’t have any other way of trying to make themselves feel good except by trying to pull other people down.
I work with a bunch of guys and one day they started telling “jokes” about a certain type of people, I didn’t laugh, I just rolled my eyes, but the jokes started getting more and more offensive. The very last joke though, was so bad that I got up and left the room. The slamming door let them know what I thought of their jokes. My boss came to me later and said,”we didn’t mean nothing by it. It was all in good fun”. Seriously.
This is only one reason I am now looking for another job.
Making fun of yourself is one thing, but making fun of other people does not help the world become a nicer place.
I had a great comment and then it got deleted by my own stupidity. Can we all just take the fat jokes and direct them at me? I deserve them right now.
It’s a sensitive topic. Maybe it was easier to get away with back in the day when obese people were only 20% of the population, but now that’s not the case.
I think these days, you would have to be pretty callous / naive to bust out a fat joke to a group of folks and think you can get away with it. Or, you have to be fat. Or, like Crabby said, a brilliant comic who isn’t coming from a place of hatred, but a place of understanding and even appreciation of how hilarious and ridiculous and vulnerable we all are.
I do think that prejudice is prejudice, regardless of whether it’s based on race, religion, or weight. Yes, we can try and not let the comments get to us, but when you live in a society that is consistently telling you how horrible you are, it can be hard to ignore. Fat folks are told that being self-loathing is a GOOD thing! How DARE we love ourselves when we’re so fat! If we hate ourselves enough, we’ll be skinny, and then everyone will love us! Except it doesn’t work. If it did, there wouldn’t BE any fat people.
Then there are the folks who disguise their prejudice as concern for our health. Never mind that yo-yo dieting is more damaging than staying heavy. People hate what they fear, and they fear what they do not want to become; part of the disenfranchised, the bullied, the despised.
There is also a misconception that fat people could be skinny if we only exercised and ate right. Well, many of us do, and we’re STILL fat! Probably because our metabolisms are shot from all the diets we’ve been on.
If we could all spend a day as an obese person, I’m sure we’d all have a lot more compassion. Spending a day in which perfect strangers point and laugh (or sneer), make nasty comments, move away from you as if you have an infectious disease, and stare at you if you deign to eat or exercise in public, would give us all a whole new perspective.
BTW,this is spoken from the perspective of a woman who is Jewish (and grew up in a Christian community) and a mother of 2 special needs kids.
This is a great post. I don’t think any hateful jokes are funny – whether it’s race, size, age, etc. It’s offensive and I find it rediculous that we “joke” about stuff like this. I usually stop someone or let them know it’s not funny. Just did it the other day with people making race jokes. I don’t mind being the party pooper…I don’t like them and won’t go along with it.
I totally agree with azuzmom. She wrote it perfectly.
The problem with fat jokes, is where does it end? I’m fat now–if I lose 20 pounds, 30 pounds, 50 pounds–where does the line get drawn? It’s like when stars gain 10 pounds on an all ready very slim frame, they are called “fat.” If skinny becomes the new norm, then average (or even slightly underaverage) weight people will be “fat.” And that’s scary.
I think humor in the right context with people who aren’t offended is fine. We all have flaws. We all have stereotypes associated with qualities of our physical makeup/religion/race/gender/whatever. I have a friend who’s Asian, and I pick on him with silly names, and he calls me “she-brew”. We’ve known each other 8 years and it’s socially accepted in my group of friends that picking on people harmlessly like that is ok.
However, I would NEVER go up to a casual acquaintance at work and say the same things. Humor like that should be confined, IMO, to comedy clubs/tv where people are looking for it, and with like minded individuals where it’s all in fun.
Then again, I’m thinking more of race/gender/stuff that you can’t change. I’m not sure poking fun of fat is ok, and I’m not sure why.
I have to honestly say that no one that I know ever talks this way or makes jokes about obese people. I suppose it’s the circles I travel in. I tend to distance myself from bigots of any type.
Many overweight/obese people are addicts.
We know that sugar and refined carbs are addictive because they suddenly and dramatically change our brain chemistry.
So, I guess the question is, are jokes about meth addicts funny? How about alcoholics?
Is uncontrollable self-destruction funny?
I agree with a lot of the wise comments, by Crabby and others, about how subjective humor is, and the spirit of a joke IS important. But let’s try and see things for what they really are.
Just because food is not a controlled substance doesn’t mean some of it isn’t addictive. And obesity can kill as surely as the manifestations of any other addiction.
I just got off Cranky Fitness writing about beauty & this hits home as well. growing up as a fat kid & Jewish in non-Jewish communities, it left some bad stuff internally on me. And as you said, it comes back to haunt you even as an adult. Hard to condone any of it although the complications of comedians is tough & how far we take it & what is right & wrong. Personally, I would rather hear none of it but how much can we police or not police.
I remember all the fat jokes from my childhood & also the "well you don't act Jewish" stuff… like we act differently.
Even discussing this brings back the bad memoires. I wish we could all try to accept each other but I know that is not going to happen.
Another thought provoking post!
I think what makes this ad problematic is that the first 3 jokes imply that the life of a Jewish person, black person, or gay person is worthless; whereas the 4th joke’s message is still offensive, but less severe: fat women aren’t screw-worthy. The first jokes suggest that black people should be prevented from having life, and that the murders of gays and millions of Jewish people are humorous. The fat joke, in comparison, is a negative commentary on the attractiveness of fat women, not on their worth as human beings (or so I think…). Because of this disconnect between the intent of the first 3 jokes with that of the fourth, the message that fat discrimination is as wrong as racial prejudice, anti-Semitism, and homophobia is lost or, worse yet, disproven! (Now that’s irony, Alanis).
Now, another facet to the argument is the choice to use a fat woman joke, as opposed to a general, genderless one. The joke implies that women who are fat are sexually unattractive to men because of their fatness, which is offensive and untrue in itself, but the more tacit message is that a woman’s worth is wrapped up in her ability to be sexually attractive to a man. So, essentially, according to this joke, a woman who is fat is worthless. Is the maker of the spot comparing the implied worthlessness of a fat woman to the implied worthlessness of a black, Jewish, or gay person? If he is aware of this comparison and the connection between a woman’s worth as a human being and her sexual attractiveness that it entails, then his message is about size discrimination AND sexism, and he needs to address both in the ad. If not, then is he agreeing with the joke’s secondary message that a woman’s worth is in her propensity to be sexualized? His ad would have to rail against both implications of the fat joke in order for the spot’s message not to be lost in the whole “degree of distastefulness” argument from my first paragraph.
Either way, you’re looking at a FAIL here!
Anti-Fat is the new Anti-Smoking mindset in western society. YOu can judge someone for it because its “for their health” its ridiculous, but kind of true too.
I just rolled out my new blog today called “Running from the Fat Lady” and found this….. Interesting.
Just in case you ever run across mine, Im only making fun of myself.
Well, not even that, Maybe more like celebrating my victory.
PS – I like you blog, will be reading more…
-M
Humor is tricky. I think Crabby made some excellent points.
But “other”-directed humor tends to be rather ugly and hurtful. So often it’s about power, subjugating the group that is perceived as weak and powerless. For example, if a person is making fun of me because I’m obese, and in a way that makes me embarrassed to do the things necessary to take care of it (get out in public and move my body around and exercise), exactly *how* is this helping the situation?
Charlotte, I never see the fat in anyone else. Or the humor in making fun of someone else.
I am so down on myself when I reach close to 130 pounds, I’m 5’7 and it shouldn’t be an issue, but it still is after 5 decades.
I don’t even make fun of myself.
Btw, Charlotte. I love your posts and depend on them more than I can say.
You are such a good and honest person.
I wish you the best always.
I think it CAN constitute as hate speech, but not necessarily. It’s hard to judge these kinds of things!
That ad IS pretty offensive. But, like you say- it gets the point across.
Can I just say what Crabby and Azusmom said? I don’t think I could say it any better. I do think it can be a form of hate speech, and I think it usually is, precisely because so many people don’t recognize it as such. In other words, I find Chris Rock hilarious. But part of the REASON he’s hilarious is because everyone in the room is aware of the loaded subject, and he plays with that: with the stereotypes, misperceptions, cultural expectations, etc. When a comedian makes a joke about a fat person, s/he’s not playing with those same things. The joke IS that the other person is fat, har har. See what I mean? That’s why the line is hard to find. If a fat person makes fun of himself, is he doing it because he’s insecure and doesn’t want to be a target? Then yeah, it’s an ingratiating tactic, and a reaction to (and promotion of) those stereotypes. On the other hand, when my fat friend, who is ALSO A TRIATHLETE makes a wry crack about not wanting to go to the gym today “because you know, all us fatties are lazy, lazy, lazy,” she’s being sarcastic. It’s a different kind of humor. Does that sort of make sense?
I always say that fat is the last acceptable form of prejudice in our society, and that fat people are the most discriminated against group, because it is somehow ok to do that. Because fat people are just weak and lazy, right?
My husband is very fat, and, when I first met him, he used to make jokes about himself before anyone else could. It was not funny and very, very painful. He virtually never does that any more, which is a huge blessing.
People look at him and see a fat person. I look at him and see someone who’s been through more rough times than most of us will ever experience, and survived. Everyone has a story. Some people just wear theirs on the outside, and are humiliated for it.
WTH!!?
You can’t change the color of your skin. You can’t change your ancestry, or your sexual orientation (sorry, no way).
These are innate, inborn traits. Is being fat a genetic burden? I guess you could make the argument that it has to do with genes. However, the assertion that fat people can’t, ultimately, change is nonsensical in the extreme.
I have my own issues with weight. It has taken serious pain and suffering to get where I am, and I’m still way off the mark.
Just not the same. Not the same at all. And no, I don’t think fat jokes are funny. They’re just infantile. I don’t (generally) laugh at them, unless they are REALLY creative.
I mean, the mental image of a person the size of a small town is absurd. The mental image of someone in a gas chamber IS NOT.
Hate is hate no matter how you want to paint it. I think it’s absolutely absurd to try to explain away how racism, sexism, etc, etc, is horrible and bad (which it is), but that making fat jokes and having a prejudice towards fat people is different and therefore, more OK. Yes, some fat people can help the way they are and choose not to. Does anyone ever take time to think what may have caused it in the first place? Perhaps laziness. But possibly depression, sickness, genes, upbringing, a traumatic event?? The truth is, you never know someones story, so why on earth is it ok to openly ridicule, mock, and degrade these people? It’s completely wrong, just as the other types of hatred toward people are WRONG.